Proposal #2 Enable IBC Transfers

Hi all, I welcome discussion on this proposal, please reply here with any concerns or your support — thank you!

Summary

This proposal enables transferring and receiving assets using the ICS20 standard on the Cosmos Hub. If this proposal passes, the Cosmos Transfer module SendEnabled and ReceiveEnabled will be set to true. This will make IBC assets available in the Bank module of the Hub and
REGEN will be available on Zones connected over IBC.

Security Considerations

The Cosmos Transfer module has been tested and is stable on other chains. In other chains there have been issues with stuck funds and UX confusion however overcoming these issues can only happen once IBC is live. Tendermint full nodes produce agreement under the assumption that at most one third of the voting power held by validators is Byzantine.

IBC

IBC is a protocol for authenticated message passing between heterogeneous sovereign blockchains. IBC requires trusting that chains on both sides of the connections operate within their security model.

Incentive Security Extensions

IBC has a facility to support freezing connections once a violation of the security model has occurred. The set of criteria for detecting such attacks continues to evolve and is a constant focus of research.

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@swidnikk or others. Am I right in assuming that with IBC the functionality is enabled in all directions, meaning that not only will REGEN tokens be visible and usable on other chains, but also ATOMs and other IBC compatible tokens will be usable on Regen Ledger?

In either case, this is a big step for us and amongst other things enables our ability to engage with other chains and decentralized exchanges as they come up in the Cosmos Ecosystem.

I’m fully in favor.

5 Likes

That’s a good question @christian_regen and this lays the foundation for that. The proposal enables both sending and receiving of assets across chains via Cosmos Hub using the Cosmos IBC aka Transfer module as listed below

The parameter change on Cosmos was announced here,
https://blog.cosmos.network/token-transfers-for-the-interchain-78a8913f24e4

Hey @christian_regen I reached to one of the IBC developers and got clarity on your questions as follows. I think we’ll have to work within our validator community to get some of this functionality up and running.

  1. Setting SendEnabled and ReceiveEnabled is the first step to allow moving REGEN assets to other chains and moving their assets to our chain.

  2. To make a transfer actually happen, someone will need to create a client and an ICS20 channel to the Cosmos hub and any other chain we wish to connect to (a one time thing). After that, anyone on either Chain will be able to send a token packet.

  3. Next, someone must run a relayer between each pair of chains for the packets to get sent which involves paying gas out of pocket. For support on other chains we’ll need to discuss with those projects and figure out who will sponsor the packet relaying.

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I’m newer to the Cosmos ecosystem, so I don’t feel qualified to assess the specific state of IBC at this point, but I do want to say that permissionless interoperability is one of primary value propositions of blockchains, and support this proposal on that basis. Giving REGEN exposure to more chains and allowing it to be available in DEXes is critical to increase the rewards for regenerative ag operations, and allow them to fully benefit from their work. I also believe many of the other tokens @christian_regen mentions being available on the Regen chain would allow for more innovation to be built on top of the Regen platform.

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Moving Regen to other chains carries a risk of increasing speculation nature around Regen. Regen token has low utility right now. So this will cause departure of Regen native token to other chains, most probably to some speculative DeFi modules.

I’m against moving Regen out of the Regen network until we will have more functionality of Regen in the Regen Network. I’m aware that IBC is needed to enable AMM and price discovery. However I want to highlight that we can’t have fundamental price discovery without proving Regen as a fundamental asset value and utility. It will all be broken and manipulated.
Moving Regen to other network won’t prove it’s utility (at least now).

Can you define the point at which the functionality of regen ledger is adequate?
It seems to me we will be iterating in a protocol market fit process and will need to build, expand and engage in the way.

RND INC intends to have the credit module ready and tested soon, an nft module and the eco data module shortly there after.

The core governance functionality is online and the pilots and off chain business development is all going very well.

If you can articulate when we cross a point that you deem appropriate that would be helpful.

We also have promised public access for a long while and that is now viable. I am not sure I agree the primary market for regen at this stage will be degen speculation. There are many community members hopping to engage productively in governance and staking as we develop, iterate and grow.

I see you point and am interested in how to discern the threshold you’re seeing.

I’m in favor of enabling IBC transfers even before core functionality is in place. Token liquidity is step 0 (imho), and IBC will help get it out there. There aren’t many avenues for degen speculation in the Cosmos ecosystem currently, so I don’t think that will be a big factor. The primary options are staking and delegation, which can only benefit the network.

Trading of the token in the early days of a network is healthy as it increases distribution. The lock-up periods in place will prevent it from getting out of hand anyway.

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IBC transfers will make Regen interoperable with the other IBC-enabled blockchains of the Cosmos ecosystem. I believe this will allow for more composability, innovation, scalability and further connect products and communities.

I am in favour of enabling IBC. My opinion is that interoperability should bring further value to Regen project, token and to the Cosmos ecosystem as a whole. :seedling: :man_astronaut:

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We don’t see any problem to enable the ICB transfers. Maybe we should start with small amounts.

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I think this is a very important, and rather complex question!

Personally, incoming IBC is much more important (for the specific projects that I have in mind).

Is it reasonable to consider enabling :

but disabling for REGEN token until this yet to be defined threshold of adequate functionality is reached??

What does that mean technically? Is there a way to restrict it?

I am in favour of enabling IBC.
I understand that the Regen token is going to be spread by Cosmos DEXs, and that can be good or bad (for investors).
But I feel that Regen has great value because the project is underpinned by a big idea.
So we don’t have to worry too much.

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Can you define the point at which the functionality of regen ledger is adequate?

I’m well aware that IBC is very important and needed for the ecosystem growth (Cosmos DEXes, and Cosmos DeFi and Regen itself). However, without any present fundamental economical value (why someone needs a Regen now to conduct his/her business?) enabling Regen in a free trade only expose speculative trading. Not sure if Regen target institutions will like it. Trading a token without using it strongly drifts towards the securities format.

As soon as Regen will have have any business utility beyond governance and PoS, (eg, pledging for creating eco-credits or validation) it will provide fundamentals for the utility of both Regen Network and REGEN token. Hence I propose to

  • firstly enable eco -credits (first update)
  • have first vintage - show it works (some real world use-case)
  • enable IBC (second update)

I hope this could be done quickly without major roadmap shifts.

Regen Network is an exceptional chain which is going to provide well needed digital assets related to ecology, social and governance. Step by step we will enable qualify more ESG assets.

Solution 2: Enabling IBC without REGEN transfers

but disabling for REGEN token until this yet to be defined threshold of adequate functionality is reached??

This is a very good idea @gotjoshua . This won’t threat the REGEN token, and will add more value to the Regen Network.

Definitely in favour of enabling IBC transfers !!

  1. Correct me if I am wrong but with IBC enabled REGEN will be tradable for cosmos over gravity dex right ?

  2. Is there anything that could go wrong or any drawbacks of doing it ?

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true

:point_up:Proposal #2 Enable IBC Transfers - #14 by robert

I appreciate the conversations here and want widen our view of the important use cases that IBC will enable. A few weeks ago, a number validators joined this event to discuss offsetting our own operations, application development use cases on Regen Ledger such as new credit issuance, and integrations which would be valuable to other chain operators. We believe we can inspire operators of other chains to offset their operations and also to make it easy for them to do so.

@robert during the event above, the group discussed laying the protocol to protocol foundations between Regen Ledger and other chains. While the Regen Development team works to complete and test the eco-credits and issuance of vintages, we can begin to erect in parallel the protocol to protocol foundations now via IBC. Such foundations will allow operators on any chain to offset their operations and enable any application connected via IBC to leverage carbon and biodiversity accounting via Regen Ledger — this provides value, potential, and may greatly expand the market demand for such credits and pave the way for ecological applications to integrate.

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We definitely support this, and as validators of other chains (not yet on Regen as we don’t currently have sufficient stake to make the top 50), we definitely plan to offset carbon emissions for our validator operations on other chains through the purchase and retiring of carbon credits. To do this on those chains (via IBC) would be ideal.

This proposal is now live,

https://regen.aneka.io/proposals/2

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KalpaTech is in favor of enabling IBC transfer on Regen and here is why:

Marketing awareness and visibility
We believe this will create an increased visibility of the project among the community as this will allow discoverability of the token on both Gravity DEX and Osmosis. There are for sure various interested parties who would like to engage with the project and contribute and are waiting for this opportunity to observe both how the price discovery mechanism will work and also to understand the interest around the project.

Price discovery
Being able to be listed on both Gravity DEX and Osmosis will help the Regen token to enter price discovery and therefore allowing interested parties to invest; having IBC enabled will permit that. As there are currently no other ways in which you are able to procure the asset, these listings are the best alternatives.
Discoverability of the token will help with distribution and having an early distribution definitely helps the project long term.

Technical considerations
The IBC module was heavy tested during Game of Zones and also has been running smoothly on Cosmos Hub for almost two months. I would say the most experimented validators are very familiar with running it and understand what they should expect. But for the validators which are new to this space, I would say that having a testnet to be able to prepare before it actually goes live, would be very beneficial. My proposal would be to spin up a test and allow that segment of validators to prepare as to make sure they are comfortable with the upcoming changes.

Utility of the token
We understand the concerns around the token not having immediate utility besides the governance and staking ones, but we don’t find this as being a drawback. ATOM for example has experiences limited utility at launch as well, not being more than a governance and staking token. But because he benefited from a price discovery mechanism helped it gain awareness which led to forming a community of developers around it that are now building complementary products and features that are going to increase the utility of the token.

1 Like